When Others Zig, We Zag: A Conversation with Brand Architect Deevo Tindall

What happens when your life looks perfect on paper, but feels completely wrong on the inside? Brand architect Deevo Tindall knows this feeling all too well. Coming from a childhood with an abusive father and absent mother as one of twelve siblings, Deevo spent years chasing external markers of success – the corporate job, big house, and material possessions – only to discover profound emptiness underneath.

This raw, honest conversation reveals how a painful divorce triggered what Deevo calls his "renaissance of self-discovery" – a decade-long journey unpacking layers of conditioning, trauma, and learned behaviors that had been subconsciously guiding his decisions. "Your identity is based upon years of habituation," he explains, "and you end up making decisions that aren't necessarily in your best interest."

Through working with therapists, coaches, and exploring everything from human design to astrology, Deevo developed a unique coaching methodology focused on aligning personal and professional development. His irreverent, no-nonsense approach now helps others find their authentic voice and expression.

The discussion takes fascinating turns through Devo's photography journey (which began by stealing a teacher's camera as a prank), his podcast "The Brand Laboratory," and insights on effective rebranding strategies. He shares why capturing moments through photography feels sacred: "It's the ultimate honor to capture a snapshot from someone's life that they'll hold onto forever."

Whether you're questioning your own alignment, considering a personal rebrand, or simply love authentic storytelling, this episode offers wisdom from someone who's done the deep work of transformation. As Deevo reminds us, "If you're a half-filled container, how can you expect to help others?" His message is clear – true impact begins with honest self-discovery and alignment.

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Chapters

• 0:56 Meet Devo Tindal
• 5:41 Childhood and Lacking Mentorship
• 12:33 The Power of Storytelling
• 21:54 Identity, Alignment, and Personal Renaissance
• 33:28 The Stolen Camera Story
• 35:30 The Brand Laboratory Podcast Journey
• 42:49 Rebranding Advice and Future Vision

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:37

Welcome back to one on one with Mr Yu. Of course, I am your host, mr Yu, glad to be here with you guys In studio with us. Speaker, brand architect and the host and voice of the Branding Laboratory podcast, or laboratory, if you will. Jivo Tinders in the house. What's up, brother?

Speaker 2: 0:56

That tells me you've listened to at least one episode, when you said it that way More than one.

Speaker 1: 1:02

I love it More than one Good to see you, glad to be here.

Speaker 2: 1:04

Thank you, I like that music at the beginning. Man, we should just keep it going the whole time.

Speaker 1: 1:08

Yeah, it's a weird thing. If you listen to any of our shows, I vibe with that music so much. I'm like do the people like it as much as I do? I don't know, I like I can listen to more loop. But anyways, let's have some fun. Get into an awesome conversation. We had an incredible interaction, our first time meeting and several sits then man, but everybody that comes through ask the first initial question your childhood, your upbringing, man, what brought you from there to here? What kind of factors played out into who you are today?

Speaker 2: 1:41

Man, that's a loaded question, you bet. Well, you know what it's interesting. The more I age and the more I learn to unpack my story, I realize that there are a lot of different layers that have compounded Some of them good, many of them not so good, to bring me to where I am today. But this is all one big giant experiment, in my opinion. We're all here to sort of experience and experiment and uncover all those things and grow. So there's a lot of pivotal things.

Speaker 2: 2:11

I don't even know where to begin with, that I'm one of 12 children, so I have 11 brothers and sisters.

Speaker 2: 2:18

Very abusive father, a not present mother. Because of my abusive father, I never had any mentors, never had any guides, never had any father figures to sort of like talk me through. You know I'm a father now and so you know me and my daughters have regular conversations, and we have since as soon, as early as they could talk, even before they could talk. So I don't know if you have a good relationship with your father, but you know there's a lot of things, there's a lot of psychology behind what a fatherly figure brings to the to, to your own development, and so, yeah, I've been, I spent a lot of the last 10 years really unpacking all the things that I didn't get and, conversely, by not having those, how I've shown up in life and realizing that they don't always work out optimally, and so I've been on sort of a renaissance for the last 10 years of trying to unpack all of my bullshit and trying to correct things and get on a better trajectory. So I don't know if that answers the question, but yeah, we'll start with that.

Speaker 1: 3:11

It totally does. Man, like I said, I don't, I tell you when I pre-interview it, no matter how messy it gets. We got the capacity to handle it. Had daddy issues, you know, in spades man, so you know he's passed away. I I buried him but we never got anything resolved. It was left wide open so had to deal with that one. Then having three daughters who I had to try to father massive challenges there. But we can. We talk about that stuff on our men's roundtable podcast a lot, so hopefully you'd be a part of that. I thought you were, but hopefully you will be a part of that if you'd like to. But uh, let's kind of keep going. So we I hear people talking about how they're storytellers, but I really feel like you have legit storytelling ability. Where'd that come from? How do you be best used in your life?

Speaker 2: 4:03

I I don't know really exactly where it came from I've not been able to sort of unpack that. I've always been very creative. I will say, if you were to ask my brothers, for whatever reason, as a young kid I used to spend hours outdoors, just sort of like sitting in the yard, and because I didn't have any money we were really dirt poor I would sort of make up my own figurines out of sticks or you know, just like, literally, like whatever I could find to to make up these like, and I would, I would have these, these games that I would play and all these different characters, and then I had names for everybody. And so I've always been sort of in that creative space in terms of telling stories. You know, it's, it's interesting. I had a really good relationship with my grandfather and who was my dad's adopted dad, which we only just found out at my father's death that he was adopted, which is a whole nother cat arm, I know right.

Speaker 2: 4:49

But, he and I used to spend a lot of time together. I played baseball growing up. I loved baseball, among other sports, but my dad never encouraged me to play baseball. He always wanted me to play football, which I never really understood. But anyway, my grandfather and I used to spend a lot of time together and he was always one for telling really cool stories, and I just remember always being captivated by his stories. So maybe I picked it up from that.

Speaker 2: 5:12

Being a father, I've raised my two daughters by myself for most of their life and so you know I've always read books to them and told stories to them, and I have a very active imagination. So I think it just kind of comes naturally to me. I just love a good story. There's something about getting wrapped up in a good book or a good movie. Or you know our relationships, you know you and me. When we first met we told stories to each other like that's how we connected, and in the storytelling we found that we had a lot of common bonds. And so that's what storytelling does? It enables you to find common bonds in other people, to sort of build relationships, emotional resonance, whatever that is, whether it's your partner or a friend or your spouse, whatever, all of those started with storytelling and so it's just kind of been a centerpiece of who I am.

Speaker 1: 5:52

Yeah, man, I get all of that stuff. Man, I love your no-nonsense approach to how you challenge people to find their own voices and own that and tell their stories and you bring that stuff out of them through brand reimagining, if you will, if I can call it that. I like that. Tell me I got this is one of the things I want to go. I'm like I'm not going to have enough time to do this. This is going to be crazy, but we're going to figure it out. But let's play a little word association. If I say identity, what do you immediately think of? Alignment? Alignment, okay, I'd love for you to kind of help us capture what you meant by this phrase when others zig we zag.

Speaker 2: 6:49

Well, I think that.

Speaker 2: 6:50

Yeah, I think I was trying to be a little cute when I said it, but I started to think about what is something catchy that really represents and embodies who I am as an individual and what I've always sort of stood behind, which is we don't always have to jump on the treadmill of life and follow what everyone else does. And now we have social media and everybody's an expert and everybody has all these things that they're sharing on, and I applaud you. If you have some zone of genius to share, you should be sharing it. But what happens is that is it all starts to sound the same, like everyone's just basically parenting everyone else and so and there's a lot of value in that Like you can extract bits of information.

Speaker 2: 7:20

But my approach to life has always been centered around find something unique that fits your vibe, your ethos and the things that you believe in, your values and your beliefs, and stand behind that, and that sometimes means that you have to zag when other people are zigging, and it doesn't mean that you have to have any shame around it. It doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong. It just means that you have a unique perspective and if you have something that you need to share, then you should be fully compelled to share it in your own unique voice, and it doesn't mean you have to follow what everybody else does.

Speaker 1: 7:49

I love this. What's the legacy you want to leave your kids?

Speaker 2: 7:53

Wow, that's a good question, because I was actually thinking about this the other day. I want to somebody who gave a fuck about a lot of different things Can I say that I give a lot of Fs about a lot? No, we already did. I pour myself into everything and I want the legacy for my children to walk away knowing that I poured what I had into them and I gave them everything I had to give them to make them completely independent of me. And that's my view of parenting. I don't want my children to be dependent upon me. I've always sort of had very structured accountability love, sort of an authoritative model in the sense of I want my children, when I'm no longer here, to support them or pay for them or whatever they're doing, and even now I'm starting to see the manifestation of this that they are self-sufficient enough that they could get along without me if they had to. So I guess that would be my, my legacy.

Speaker 1: 9:29

I love that and the reason why I asked about the word identity and you respond with alignment. So I'm going to have you flesh both of those out a little bit, but what I'm seeing is well. First of this show has been a blessing to me to be able to speak to people globally now about their compelling stories and hear the trauma and the tragedy. It's not for likes and stuff, because I don't even think it even helps my show. You have the roughest stuff. I'm not sure how it moves the needle, but I hear from people so much about how transparent the guests are and stuff, but trauma and tragedy. Even in your case you have to decide whether you want to stay and kind of immerse yourself in that stuff or move despite it. So tell me how you see identity, based on or through the lens of what you've gone through and how you've overcome. What does identity and alignment look like for Devo?

Speaker 2: 10:25

To answer your question, by the way, about why you're podcasting and the benefit and the value, I think that, having listened to several of your shows, even if you affected one listener, you've done your job because somebody was affected emotionally. Even if you affected one listener, you've done your job because somebody was affected emotionally, took a morsel of information, whether they were inspired, entertained, educated, and it made their day a little bit better, even for 30 minutes. So I think the point of that is to connect with people and be able to share stories like you do so well. So now I'll answer your second question Identity and alignment. Well, I came upon this by your second question Identity and alignment. Well, you know, I came upon this sort of by.

Speaker 2: 11:01

I jokingly say that I've been sort of on this renaissance of self-discovery for the last 10 years and it really started when I got divorced, roughly in 2013, 14. And prior to my divorce, I was on a treadmill and I was just sort of doing all the things that I thought I was supposed to do when I was working in the corporate world for and I was married to, I had the big house and I had the white picket fence and I had the two dogs, and you know we had this, all these nice things, and I just remember thinking that was what was important in life, right. And then when I got divorced and everything came crashing down and there were other variables that simultaneously occurred. And you know they say when the student is ready, the messenger arrives, or Buddha says that. And initially I thought you know like woe is me and like why is all these things happening to me? But when you actually stop and take a step back from all of that and take a look at it in a holistic perspective, you realize that a lot of times we give meaning to things unconventionally that shouldn't have the meaning that we give them right. We apply blame or we apply judgment or we say that we're wrong or there's something wrong with us or there's something wrong with you, whatever it is. And the more I started to sort of like literally, when I say unpack this. I really started to question my role in the world Because up until that point I really hadn't done anything that I was terribly proud about. I had two wonderful daughters, but beyond that, you know, all I had was a big house, a lot of money and I was working in a corporate world with a job that I absolutely despised, and so I had to start. And then my marriage ended and I was like I've never really had any failure in the sense of the way we view the world, the way we judge the world, and so when all these things started capsizing on me, I started to actually ask questions of myself like what's my role in all this? So fast forward all this time?

Speaker 2: 12:36

I've been in this renaissance for the last 10, 9 to 10 years now, really trying to unpack who I am and how I show up in the world and how others receive me or perceive me and their perspectives and all these things. And what happens when you start to unpack this identity? You realize that your identity is based upon years and years of habituation, conditioning, context, learned behaviors, experiences, trauma, and they just keep packing on top of each other these years. What you're left with is a program that is guiding your life subconsciously, and you end up making decisions that aren't necessarily in your best interest. You go into relationships that aren't necessarily in alignment with you. You get married to people who you knew you didn't love, but you felt compelled for a variety of reasons, because your bad programming was guiding all the decisions you made.

Speaker 2: 13:30

And so when I started to realize that all these things could be altered there's a concept called epigenetics where you can actually reprogram how you show up in the world by unpacking all of the trauma that got you in that place in the first place you start to see that you're out of alignment, right Everything that you really truly are meant to be doing in this world and for me, that was who I was hanging out with.

Speaker 2: 13:49

That was my circle, those are my friends, that was my romantic partners, that was my romantic partners.

Speaker 2: 13:53

That was even my business. I was completely out of alignment because I had no idea who I really was at my core, and as soon as I started doing the deep work working with therapists, working with coaches, working with like I started doing all sorts of functional and holistic things from human design to astrology I just really I was like I was a student of the game and I'm like whatever there is to unpack my fuckery, I'm gonna unpack it. And the more I unpacked it, I realized that they were just layer after layer of all these bad programming that I was using as my operating mechanism, and so I just set out about to reprogram that and I'm not necessarily where I need to be, but I'm a hell of a lot further off than I was 10 years ago, and because what happens is when you start to understand who you are, you start to get in alignment with the things that really add value to your life and push the needle and actually enable you to become the best version of yourself.

Speaker 1: 14:42

I love it. I love it. We talked about this in our pre-interview and I want to kind of bring it back out because I believe it has value. When you have an upbringing like what you had, even like what I had you mentioned earlier, so I'm not putting a label on it. You said you had even like what I had, uh, you mentioned earlier, so I'm not putting a label on it. You said you were in a, you had a poor upbringing. Do you find yourself, or have you found yourself, kind of overcompensated? What you didn't have then do you, because you talked about, you know, the house and the money and everything, was that an overcompensation? Or has it been that, since I had you kind of a, just opposed the fact that you had such a rough upbringing and now you have means, how do you decide when yes, it should be yes and when no should be a no in? It changes how much stuff you have in life.

Speaker 2: 15:30

Yeah, I mean I I don't know if it was overcompensating or just misalignment I I didn't have any clarity on what I actually wanted out of my life. And because now that I've unpacked all this stuff, my in how I perform validation from my partner, validation from my friends, validation by my big house, validation by my nice cars, validation by saying I had all these nice things and I was doing all these nice things on paper but really behind the scenes I was poorly managed. I couldn't handle a budget if my life depended upon it. I was married to a woman who I just was not in love with. I was doing all these things that were completely taking me out of alignment. And it was because I didn't have any sort of metrics or rubrics to sort of build myself out in a positive capacity. So, yeah, I guess it would be overcompensation. It was really me just misaligned and not really clearly able to show up in the way that I wanted to actually show up.

Speaker 1: 16:32

Totally makes sense. I want to spend some time in the business aspect, the coaching aspect of what you're doing and who you are as a person, as a leader, but I want to hear the stolen camera story first.

Speaker 2: 16:48

Yeah, I've had a camera in my hand for as long as I can remember and I was just fascinated by photography. I had a teacher who who moonlighted with a photographer and I was. I've always been a prankster, um, I've just always liked to play around, not nothing malicious or pernicious, just I like to pull pranks on stuff and um, and so I, he, he was, I had a good relationship with him, so I just want to preface that. But anyway, I stole his camera one time out of his drawer just to slide a pool of prank and went, took a bunch of photographs with it with my friends and I and it was nothing special taking photographs skateboarding running around the neighborhood. It was an old 35 millimeter. And then I snuck it back into his desk drawer and then I completely forgot about it and I would say probably I don't know.

Speaker 2: 17:27

A couple of months later class ended and he's like Mr Tyndall, I need you to stay after class. And he walked up to my desk and he dropped this envelope on my desk and, mind you, I had never seen anything develop. I'd never seen film before. This is before digital cameras even existed, and I just remember opening it up and I'm seeing all these photographs. I didn't even care about that, I was going to get in trouble for stealing his camera, and God, I just remember thinking, holy shit, those are like photos of me and my friends, and I just remember.

Speaker 2: 18:01

It seems simple and benign, but to me, having never seen anything like that, never had any, we didn't have any photographs. There's very few photographs of me as a kid. That actually existed because we just didn't have cameras and we couldn't afford them. And I just remember thinking that I had taken these photographs me personally and while they were nothing special, I was blown away by the chronology of it, like I had taken a moment and frozen this in time and it was there forever and ever, and just sort of like thinking, wow, you could actually do this. And so, yeah, so that kind of was my first love and first exposure to photography. And then I went on to have a quite prolific career doing that for the last, I guess, really about the last 12 years, 13 years now I love it.

Speaker 1: 18:33

I love it. Last 12 years, 13 years now. I love it, I love it. So, before we start getting into the nuts and bolts of what you're doing and some things we talked about that I think are very interesting and timely, we'll get into that, hopefully before the show ends, but I want your thoughts on something, because I've been pondering this question for a minute. I don't think it's because I'm doing, or I have been doing, coaching for almost 30 years now, but I feel like this is the question I wanted to ask you and also for the benefit of those watching and listening Not having somebody be that in your life, but you mentioned that earlier on in the episode that you didn't have coaches and mentors in your life that are about to kind of steer you and guide you.

Speaker 1: 19:12

There's two ways you can go when you're in that situation. I've seen people go either way. One is they'll become a coach and they'll do it independent of any kind of guidance. I got to compensate for what I didn't have, so I'm going to be that. You know, almost as a defiance to the past, say you know what? No, you know, almost like a flipping the bird to the past. You know what? No, no, almost like a flipping the bird to the past. You know what I'm going to do this, despite what I went through and despite how I got cheated. Or you're somebody who says you know what I really. I really value what I didn't have and I see the benefits of it. And I, I want to not only you know coach somebody, but I also want to be coached. Where do you feel like you fall in those two categories?

Speaker 2: 19:53

Well, now that I'm operating in the sandbox, you know I have three coaches of my own right now from different levels of my life. So I have I have a business, I have a business coach, I have a mindset and performance coach and I have a holistic sort of functional coach that really helps me tap into my spirituality. I have a therapist that I go to and I sound really fucked up. I was like this dude's got a lot of problems. Yeah, I do have a lot of problems. We all do. The difference is that I'm willing to unpack those and own them, and so that's what I spend a lot of my time doing.

Speaker 2: 20:19

To answer your question, I am a student of the game. I don't know if I've said that before. I'm the most curious person I've ever met. I absorb knowledge all day long. I read, I research, I look at data, I work on myself as an individual, and it's just because I want to be the best at what I do and always add in my own terms, not competitively against other people. I just want to make sure that whenever I'm showing up in the marketplace or showing up as your friend or showing up as your partner or whatever it is that I'm maximizing all outputs that I can possibly give, and so that means sometimes I overdeliver, which goes back to my psychology of constant validation. So that's one of the things I'm unpacking right now is sort of like how do I show up without any sort of conditional logic around it, Like I should just be your friend and not expect something in return, for example and I realized a lot of times that I was doing that but back to answer your question. Sorry that, but back to answer your question. Sorry, I ramble a bit.

Speaker 2: 21:18

I think that coaching is. In my opinion, a good coach isn't a. They don't have all the answers necessarily, but they should serve as a mirror, they should serve as a reflection and they should be able to meet people where they are and then help whoever they're helping unpack from the level they are and the persistent and consistent application of helping them unpack. That's how you become a better individual, and sometimes that's brutal honesty, Sometimes that's kindness and compassion, Sometimes that's helping you with research and data. It's a variety of different things For me.

Speaker 2: 21:48

I believe that a good coach should be there as a vehicle to help the other person grow and expand, and that also requires me to continue to grow and expand, because I'm only a half. If I'm a half filled container, how can you expect me to help you in any way, shape or form? So if I'm helping you with a project, I'm going full, full bore, schooling myself on whatever problem it is that you're suffering from as well, just so that I can better understand and articulate and actually give you insights on it. So yeah, and I'm not the best coach for everybody Like there are very specific people that I'm very qualified to help and other people like if you were to come at me and be like, hey, I'm an engineer, I need to help my engineering career, I need a lot of mad science around, I'm like, bro, I don't really feel like I can help you. That's just not my area because he knows all about that kind of stuff. So, yeah, I think coaching and learning should go hand in hand. It's really long and short of that.

Speaker 1: 22:38

No, that's a fantastic answer, thank you. We often undervalue the cause and effect what happened then, to how we're impacted by it now. What do you think, if this is a fair question, what do you think is the current impact on you not having mentorship early on? What's the current impact that you can clearly see? This is why, or this is because, I didn't have this early on, even though you're working on yourself and you're making continuous improvements. Is there one thing you can pinpoint that says this is what this is happening? Well, I'm feeling this in these spots because I didn't have mentorship early on.

Speaker 2: 23:15

You find that I think there's a lot of different areas where it shows up. Primarily, what it centers around is playing catch up. You have a, you have a shorter trajectory in terms of what you have left and sort of like trying to catch up as quickly as you can on the thing that you missed out on. But that almost sounds a little bit linear for me. I think it's all me, I think it's all been a very purposeful, even if unconscious, trajectory, because I wouldn't know any of the things that I know today had I not gone through those experiences.

Speaker 2: 23:45

First. You said cause and effect, that's the same thing as polarity. Right, that's the same thing as like karma, at least how I view karma. I believe what you put into things, you get an equal. At least how I view karma, I believe what you put into things, you get an equal, equinamitous output in return.

Speaker 2: 23:57

And so for me, because I spent a large majority of my life on a trajectory I sort of coasted through a large majority of my life, but because I'm talented I was able to get by.

Speaker 2: 24:07

Now I'm very purposeful, I'm very motivated and very intellectual around how I'm showing up. And so you know, one could argue that I made a lot of mistakes, but it's the mistakes that have led me to where I am right now, because I took the time to be self-aware and introspective around it to sort of understand how I was showing up in the world. So polarities exist, karma exists. I don't know that. I would rather be anywhere else than where I am right now. And, to be truthfully honest with you, when I look back at all of the quote unquote mistakes that I've made or the things that I've done wrong or whatever it is, I can't say that I regret them because I don't know. Even marrying the women I have, two amazing children from it, and each individual that I dated afterwards, a person that I've, I continue to learn and grow and see like, okay, this fits me a little bit more. This is out of alignment with me. These are values that I can't work on.

Speaker 1: 25:02

These are things that I can't work on. These are things that I love, and so every one of those experiences is sort of add to the mosaic of my life and I am exactly where I'm supposed to be right now and I don't really have any regrets around it. No worries at all, man, I love it. Man, tell me why I want to get into your branding. I'm trying to get there. So many questions I want to ask you. You're such an interesting guy, man, so much I want to tap into man, just becoming friends with you and learning so much about you is like ah, I got something to ask, man, we can go on.

Speaker 2: 25:18

I love it Thank you.

Speaker 1: 25:19

I feel the same way, by the way. No, my pleasure, man. So why is photography such a beautiful expression to you? I want to hear you eloquently. I wish you would say the way you told me the first time I asked you that question, but maybe not. But why is photography such a beautiful expression for you, debo? Well?

Speaker 2: 25:33

you're going to make me cry on this. I actually was brought to tears last night.

Speaker 2: 25:38

I shoot for a local magazine here in Charlotte and I've been shooting for them for years. And I don't actually do a lot of photography anymore in the space of weddings and things of that nature and I primarily just do branding work now. But I've stayed with a few of the staple of the projects that I have for a about being given the privilege to photograph someone else so that they have that image for posterity. They're paying me, they're honoring me with the privilege and the right to come into their home, to come into their life and create something for them that they can hang up on their wall, that they can have, pass on to their children, their grandchildren or whatever. And I take it very seriously for a couple of reasons, because I didn't have that experience as a child.

Speaker 2: 26:33

I don't have many photographs of me to begin with and having the ability to come in, and last night I was photographing a family and they just have this amazing story've they fostered two children out of necessity. They ended up adopting both of them and then they realized that they love children so much that they surrogated another child. It's two women, so they're not able to, you know, do it the natural way. So they surrogated another child, and, and, and, and they've. Now they have three children of their own and all three of these children have like these really crazy stories about them and how they came into their life and they hired me to come capture.

Speaker 2: 27:12

They've never had photographs taken of them and their children before, and so I got to spend like two hours with them last night bouncing around the city and and if you, if you could just sort of be there and see the joy and and the history and and the, the moments that are going on and being created while I'm taking someone's photograph, and then I'm going to hand those to these photographs to them in a couple of days and they're going to see everything that they just went through with me recorded forever. Like, how can I get anything better than that? Like that is literally the most ultimate honor to be able to capture a snapshot from someone else's life and then hand that to them to be able to hold on to forever and ever, because you'll never have that moment again. Like, if you stop and really think about, like those moments, this conversation is done in 10 minutes we'll be off the phone and you've recorded it so we'll be able to listen to it and play it back.

Speaker 2: 28:01

And photography is the same way. Like those moments, they will never exist again. And I was there, and they honored me with the privilege to step into their little life for two hours and capture something for them that they will treasure for the rest of their life. And if that doesn't make you give goosebumps, I don't know what is.

Speaker 1: 28:18

Yeah, you should Definitely Tell us about the laboratory. Where are you trying to make a difference with entrepreneurs and with rebranding? Tell us how it started and what you're trying to accomplish and what you've been seeing. What kind of three-part question there?

Speaker 2: 28:36

First of all, before I continue, I'm getting repeatedly phone calls from my daughter. Is there any way we can pause this for three seconds just to make sure she's not okay, or is this live?

Speaker 1: 28:44

It is live, but you can go ahead and check on her. Just mute yourself, let me just text her. I don't want to see you mute yourself forever, like you said. I don't know why she's calling.

Speaker 2: 28:52

Oh man, I hate this. I'm just texting right now. All right, the Brand Laboratory, we'll just text in a second. All right, I realized about, I guess about seven years ago that I didn't like the circle that I was hanging around in. I just didn't feel like my circle was filling me up. I'm not denigrating who they are, it's just I didn't really feel like I was really connecting with the right type of people.

Speaker 2: 29:16

Most of my life I was spent I was raising my children and working, and I really wasn't doing a lot of personal development around like my people, right, and so I. So I was like, okay, what's, what's one way I could do this, and so I started playing around with masterminds and different things. Anyway, I got turned on to the concept of a podcast and so I was like I'm going to start a podcast and just see, kind of, what happens with it. So I started this podcast and at first it was just me talking going on, cause you know, as you can see, I like to talk. And and then I was like you know, let's bring a guest on. This is sort of see anyway. So I brought this guest on. It was the most random conversation ever. Um, he was like a, he was a historian and anyway. I just remember sitting after for like two and a half hours later in a conversation. I realized I had just been on the phone for two and a half on a podcast for two and a half hours and it was the the most fascinating conversation ever. And then I started seeing and I posted it on YouTube and it went on. I was using a free app to post them out there and I remember seeing all these people were like writing comments on. I was like holy shit, like I just affected a few people's lives through a simple conversation. Maybe I could do more of that, and so that's kind of where it began. And so the brand laboratory is in the fourth iteration of my podcast and I'm still working on sort of finding the secret sauce to it.

Speaker 2: 30:27

But by and large, it's my way of sharing other people's intellectual property and zone of genius with a larger population and connecting the dots which I'm really good at, so that other people can learn, be educated, be inspired, take something away from somebody else.

Speaker 2: 30:46

Like you have really good insights on a lot of different things. You have a lot of experiences. I'm going to have a conversation with you and we're going to learn about how you became who you are and in the process of becoming who you are, you have stories, you have lessons, you have insights, you have wisdoms, and nowhere on the planet have we ever had the opportunity to do that like we can do today through social media, through podcasting, et cetera. And so it's sort of my way of connecting with people, first and foremost, because I still have amazing friends that I have traveled with, I have visited other countries, I do collaborations, I do workshops, I do financial business with people now, and all of these people have come from my podcast, and so for me, it's just really like it's like this microcosm of connectivity and it just gives me this opportunity to connect with people and to connect other people from all over the world and like that's the whole point of humanity, if you ask me.

Speaker 1: 31:39

I've told you I love this, love this. So what would that? I don't know who specifically listened to this or will be listening to this on replay or watching this. What do you want prospective clients to know about you? I guess we could say your brand promise. Why should they work with Devo? What's going to happen if they decide to work with Devo?

Speaker 2: 31:56

Well, I don't know if they should work with me. I think that's a very delicate question that you should spend a lot of time answering very, very carefully. If you're going to hire a coach, there's a couple of variables that you should be looking for first and foremost. First of all, you have to be values aligned right. If I'm going to zig and you're going to zag the whole time, we're not in values alignment. So you should make sure that we sort of like each other, and I really kind of mean singing Kumbaya around the campfire.

Speaker 2: 32:21

You should be able to hang and chill with me and be like I actually enjoy this cat's company, right? So I think that's really important to me because, as a coach you are, you are basically pulling back the covers, and the right client will enable you to pull back the covers, because you have to be vulnerable, you have to be transparent, you have to show your uglies, you have to show all the things that make you who you are, and a good coach should not have judgments around that. A good coach should be able to get into that space with you and really help you uncover whatever it is you're trying to uncover. So I think, first and foremost, whether you work with me or not, you should sort of understand that what I bring to the table, I'm a bit irreverent. I have zero bullshit. I will hold you accountable. I will be a reflection for you I got to put a label on this episode.

Speaker 1: 33:10

Now you know that.

Speaker 2: 33:11

Sorry, baby, you know what they say about people who curse. There's more intelligence behind that. I heard it. Yeah, albert Einstein said people who curse more have more intelligence. Anyway, I digress, they're just words, right, yeah?

Speaker 2: 33:24

So I think what I bring to the table are years and years of experience as an entrepreneur, and I worked in the corporate world as an executive for almost 15 years managing multimillion dollar projects.

Speaker 2: 33:35

I have been around a lot of different types of people and have consumed a massive amount of experience in that process. So I think honesty, integrity, a dedication to helping you build I really have a servant first attitude. I do truly believe that. I do believe that we make other people better and ourselves better by building each other up, and, for me, I have a really cool way of looking at the world. I don't think that professional development is the only way that we should grow. I think that we should work on ourselves personally and professionally and get them in alignment, and so what I bring to the table is a really unique rubric and a methodology that I have developed over the last 10 years, as myself, I was the guinea pig, so I've seen the merit of the meritocracy of it and I'm going to serve as an accountability reflection for you doing the exact same work that has really helped me excel what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 34:30

Oh, I love this. Well, we got. We're up against a little bit, but I want to give you some time because, first off, I'm a friend and I'm glad that you're very interesting, so I want to knock out three more questions with you before we get out of here. Now. We had an awesome conversation about a couple of funny areas. Let's play word association. Again, I say self-help. I say self-help. What's coming to mind?

Speaker 2: 34:59

Dedication. That ain't what you said last time you said. What's coming to mind right now? Self-help dedication. I think that you should be dedicated to learning to love yourself. It's it's if you, if you are unfull, if you are unhappy with yourself, if you're insecure about who you are, how are you designed to help other people? So, uh, we should. We should be able to help ourselves and become a better version of ourselves, and not be selfish about it or feel guilty about it or have shame around it. It's not a narcissistic thing to learn to become a good version of you.

Speaker 1: 35:32

No, that's good. The other one was more funny and it was.

Speaker 2: 35:36

What did I say last time? I don't even know. You said what comes to mind right now.

Speaker 1: 35:39

No, no, that's good, this is good. I won't bring it up. That that's great. This is good. I won't. I won't bring that up more instantly, but that's, that's that good. I believe in everything you say there, because self-love and self-care is important and people who will go get like us. We don't think about nothing by slowing down and taking care of that. Take care of the hands, the nails and hands on our feet and all other things. We got to do that kind of stuff, so I love that well, we're looking at resource bank.

Speaker 2: 36:04

I. I look at ourselves as like a bank account, right? You have only so much money in your bank account, right? And the more you spend, the money dwindles down. So the more we give, whether we're parents and I'm a parent, whether we're coaches and I have clients, or whether we're partners and you have girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever it is, you only have finite amount of resources, and so if you're not working on yourself to continue to replete what you've just lost by giving away, then how good are you? The more you can fill yourself up, the more you'll be able to give, if you have your mindset wrapped around it from that trajectory, of course.

Speaker 1: 36:34

You can't fill somebody else's cup when yours is empty, of course not. Okay, yeah, so this is the penultimate question. So we had some talks about the cracker barrel situation and their attempt to rebrand and, as a professional who helps companies rebrand themselves, what was your thoughts on how that went down? What would you have advised if you were being asked to be a part of a rebranding for a company on this level? Go ahead.

Speaker 2: 37:04

Well, I wouldn't have done an all or nothing campaign like they did. I probably would have started with getting feedback from my customer database. First and foremost, I would want to know what they thought about it. I might have introduced samples to sample populations so I could just see the feedback. Maybe I would have picked out one or two stores that have different types of demographics, that visit them, different financial demographics, et cetera, and just sort of get some feedback.

Speaker 2: 37:27

What was the reaction? I wouldn't have just thrown it out there knowing full. First of all, if you know the type of audience and you saw the backlash and I think some of the backlash was a little bit bandwagon, by the way, but if you saw the backlash you can see they have a very loyal and very intimate following, right. And so if you know that going in, if you're the CEO of a company, you should be really in touch with who your audience is first and foremost Like. If you didn't know that going in, that means you didn't do the work necessary to become the proper CEO, like, whoever hired her should have made sure.

Speaker 2: 37:59

Hey, there's got to be some sort of an onboarding here so that you understand who our target audience is. I mean, I don't know what went on or what didn't go on, but a lot of times people make decisions just to make decisions, just because they want to rock the boat, and sometimes those work out. And it's interesting because had that not backfired on her, people would have been lauding her as the greatest executive of all times. But again, I would suspect that she didn't take the time in rolling it out in a much slower capacity, because she could have learned really quickly whether it would have been accepted or not had she done that instead of just like flipping the switch overnight.

Speaker 1: 38:31

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. All right, stop. Final question If you watch any of our shows but you have you know it's going to be and after we're done with this, I want to take a couple of minutes to kind of just speak to the audience about how they can find your work and be willing to say regarding branding and what you're doing and what you potentially want to offer. Give you a platform to do that. But this is our CMV question career, mission and vocation. That's to diminish your work. You've done incredible things community-wise and in your family and in your world, in your neck of the woods. I want to diminish that, but theoretically and temporarily, I'm going to wipe away all the stuff you've done up to this point, career-wise, mission-wise, vocation-wise. What do you think devo is doing right now, september 17, 2025? What do you think he's doing outside, what he's been doing all this time?

Speaker 2: 39:19

I would still be coaching in some capacity. I would. I would be in some. I would definitely be in coaching in some capacity. Coaching in some capacity. I would definitely be in coaching in some capacity, building communities in some capacity. I have a funny story which is interesting. When I was about eight or nine years old, my grandfather, I was driving in the car with him one day and I forget where we went, but he dropped me off. There was like a park or something. This is back in the day.

Speaker 2: 39:40

We could just drop people off and yeah it was a long time, Trust me, it was a really long time ago and I remember he went over to the hardware store I forget what it was. Anyway, he came back and picked me up and when he picked me up he had to wait for me for a little bit longer because I had organized something. I forget if it was a football game or a game of hide and seek, I don't forget it was but I had rallied like all these kids in the park and that's just sort of how I operate, and I had brought all these people together and I don't remember what we were doing and I just remember. Finally he got me in the car and he's like Debbie, you know, I could drop you anywhere on the planet. And by the time I come back, that scenario would have repeated itself over and over. And I just remember thinking, okay, cool, I didn't really think anything of it.

Speaker 2: 40:16

But when I think back to that now I that my entire life I've always been sort of the dot connector, the community builder, the event organizer, and that just sort of that fills me up. Like I love seeing people engaging in a collaborative capacity. It's like co-creation, collaboration, Like that's for me, that's like the infinite goal of everybody is like to work together. I don't believe in these silos, I don't believe in like world governments and competitive nature. Like competition is good, but not when we're when someone else is constantly suffering from it. So if everything was wiped clean, I would still be doing some sort of community capacity, community building. I would definitely be doing some sort of coaching. That's just in my DNA. I would definitely be doing something in the artistic world, whether it's photography, whether it's painting I don't know what it is, but something that fills me up creatively, because I believe that our creative buckets are empty for a lot of people and I think that's one of the reasons why we have so many problems that we do.

Speaker 1: 41:12

No, no doubt, man. Thank you for being here, brother. This was fantastic. I think a lot of what you said sharpened me as a coach, but I've always got room to grow, no matter how many clients I have. One thing I have the privilege of saying now, because when I asked that question most times I don't know the person who I'm asking that question. She's the only way they're going to say but I always I had a different answer for you. If you were to ask me what I think Devo will be doing, I think he'd be coaching sports. Yeah, I actually can see that. It probably wouldn't put it that way now at this stage, but I can really see that. I see you as a connecting leader of men. That's an easy route in my assessment, but you're a coach, you're a leader of men and you're a leader of people and you got it, brother, man. So I'm blessed to know you, man, honored to be in this conversation with you today, man, and thank you for what you're doing, man. Let everybody know where they can find your work, man.

Speaker 2: 42:07

First of all, thank you. I really appreciate you saying the kind words that you did. Thank you, it means a lot to me and thank you for the opportunity to come on your show. So, yeah, I'm honored, thank you. Where to find me If you want navigate to all the different things websites, podcasts, social media but TheBrandStorytellercom and I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram pretty regularly, and now I've got to play on Facebook because I joined this group with you and I don't like Facebook. I hate Facebook, man.

Speaker 1: 42:36

I don't like it either.

Speaker 2: 42:38

I know, but now I've had to like log in every day and like go in there this log in every day and go in there.

Speaker 1: 42:43

This is not about other people. You've been talking about self-sacrifice and whatever. Now you're going to bail out now?

Speaker 2: 42:48

No, I'm not bailing out. I've been cutting myself every day just so I can get on Facebook.

Speaker 1: 42:53

We all get cut. I'm cutting myself. You ever will be.

Speaker 2: 42:57

The last thing I needed was more social media Get rid of TikTok. Balance it out, it'll be alright. Never I cannot do the TikTok. I never know if TikTok's Going to be here today or gone tomorrow. It's like every day I hear a new story oh, it's going to be banned tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 43:14

I don't want to be bothered with it. Whatever Do, whatever you want to do, I don't even care anymore.

Speaker 2: 43:17

I just don't care anymore either. I'm so tired of it.

Speaker 1: 43:19

Thank you for supporting us in the group.

Speaker 2: 43:23

I'm excited to be part of it. Man, I meant to have a conversation with you just so I can understand better how to maximize my time there, for myself and for everyone. I got suggestions for you. Let's get together, Dude, you're not very far from me. Let's catch up and go out one night and just talk Anytime you're ready. Right now it's an open invitation. I'm ready. I can't come right now. Right now it's an open invitation. I'm ready. I can't come right now.

Speaker 1: 43:44

All right, well, I'm looking for the idea, though. Okay, I'm ready for it. But fantastic, combo man, thank you. We're going to continue this offline after we close out today, but if you're watching and listening, we're on all the social media platforms, with a couple of exceptions like Instagram and TikTok. I'll put it all out there for you within the hour or so, and then, of course, on a listening platform like Spotify, iheartradio, apple Podcasts. We'll be there before 3 o'clock today. So thanks again for watching and listening. And that's Devo Brand Architect, the velvety smooth host of the Branding Laboratory, and I'm Mr U. We're out of here. Have a great day, guys. You.